A lot of concern being expressed on social media about these lights.
Some people have stopped at the red lights, but the driver behind them noticing the roundabout has gaps or is clear are now blaring their horn or aggressively gesticulating putting pressure on drivers to go through red.
And then you have drivers correctly going through on green that are being surprised by cars entering the roundabout having jumped the red.
I cannot see how the AI algorithms for traffic light operation can work correctly, as long as the traffic flow data being collected is skewed by drivers ignoring the lights.
I guess the next thing will be cameras fitted to catch drivers who pass on red, followed up by a €200 fine a 4 penalty points.
https://www.informacion.es/vega-baja/20 ... 93938.html
Google translate, minus video and images:
Traffic jams are the main issue following the launch of smart traffic lights at the Punta Prima roundabout in Torrevieja
Confusion and chaos reign in the first days of operation of a pioneering traffic control system at one of the busiest roundabouts.
The Ministry of Transport and Sustainable Mobility has completed the installation of a pioneering traffic light system based on artificial intelligence at the Punta Prima roundabout, located at kilometer 52.8 of the N-332 highway, on the stretch between Torrevieja and Orihuela Costa. The project is, in fact, an experiment, as it is the first roundabout in Spain to feature this type of technology.
The project, which is financed by European funds from the Recovery, Transformation and Resilience Plan, has finally cost 357,534 euros, a figure slightly lower than the 409,000 initially planned.
The works have included the installation of traffic light poles at the access points - in both directions of the national highway and at its confluence with the avenues of Las Olas and Escorpiones - the placement of detection cameras and traffic data collection devices at each access point and the implementation of a control system based on artificial intelligence, capable of automatically regulating traffic light cycles according to the actual intensity of traffic.
According to the ministry, this intervention has sought not only to improve traffic flow at the roundabout, but also to lay the groundwork for the incorporation of intelligent systems in the road management of the State Road Network and to place the user at the center of decision-making.
In theory... because in practice, at least in these first few days of its implementation, there is chaos and confusion, partly due to the unfamiliarity of drivers who find themselves with traffic lights in a roundabout, generating major traffic jams — during rush hour — in all directions, especially on Avenida de Las Olas and Calle Escorpiones. On the ground, the result is that some drivers ignore the traffic lights, acting as if they don't exist and running red lights out of desperation.
The system prioritizes passage for vehicles on the national highway, which often accumulates traffic jams of hundreds of meters, especially in the direction of Torrevieja. Therefore, those arriving at the roundabout from the two roads, Los Altos and Rocío del Mar, sometimes find that when the traffic lights are amber they do not have the actual capacity to pass, and when they are red they could actually pass, so some, after having been in a queue, decide to skip it to take advantage of the "gap".
So many users are wondering if these traffic lights are really smart, if it was necessary to invest in this "experiment" or if "traditional" ones would have sufficed, and if there wasn't another solution to regulate traffic at one of the busiest roundabouts, which handles an average of 45,000 vehicles daily.
The other big question is what will happen at this spot, which is usually congested all year round, when the season is in full swing, with the arrival of more tourists and the floating population occupying second homes and tourist apartments, being the only way out for all the residents of Rocío del Mar and Señorío de Punta Prima, where in recent years - and still now - numerous buildings are being constructed.
We will have to give it time to see if these new elements really work in complex road infrastructures such as roundabouts, and let the AI train itself, since the system itself learns to optimize traffic light regulation from the experience of use and the data collected.
To this end, a monitoring and management system for intelligent traffic lights is included, based on machine learning and reinforcement learning techniques, which are combined simultaneously with neural networks, big data, traffic modeling and traditional traffic engineering methods to analyze the operation of the roundabout and select the most efficient solution for all users.
Punta Prima N332 Roundabout AI Traffic Lights
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Re: Punta Prima N332 Roundabout AI Traffic Lights
It's only busy for a couple of months each year and there's an alternatative route anyway, so I really can't see the point of them.
I use this roundabout on a regular basis and the only very busy stretch and frequent queueing is coming from La Zenia direction, and I have actually seen traffic backing up the La Zenia roundabout and no amount of AI traffic lights at the Punta Prima roundabout is going to ease that problem.
The only time when things will get better is when the tolls become free on the AP7, but that won't be unti 2048 when the consession expires. !!
As I will be 103 then, I can say with some certainty that I won't be alive to see it. But you never know. It may even coincide with the start of the building of the dualling of the N332. Ever the optimist.
I use this roundabout on a regular basis and the only very busy stretch and frequent queueing is coming from La Zenia direction, and I have actually seen traffic backing up the La Zenia roundabout and no amount of AI traffic lights at the Punta Prima roundabout is going to ease that problem.
The only time when things will get better is when the tolls become free on the AP7, but that won't be unti 2048 when the consession expires. !!
As I will be 103 then, I can say with some certainty that I won't be alive to see it. But you never know. It may even coincide with the start of the building of the dualling of the N332. Ever the optimist.
Re: Punta Prima N332 Roundabout AI Traffic Lights
Not a ringing endorsement for AI traffic lights, although technological advances comes with challenges.
Wonder who thought it was a good idea that the AI traffic light sequencing should consist of only amber and red, and not replicate normal traffic light of green, amber and red, that drivers are used to ?
https://www.informacion.es/vega-baja/20 ... 32297.html
Google translate, minus video and images:
Not even AI can solve the traffic jams at the Rocío del Mar roundabout on the N-332 in Torrevieja
Complaints are mounting as August progresses. In May, the Ministry of Transport launched a pioneering artificial intelligence system to regulate traffic at the Rocío del Mar-Punta Prima roundabout in Torrevieja, near the Orihuela municipal boundary. This is one of the most congested points on the N-332 highway in the Vega Baja region. An average of nearly 40,000 vehicles pass through this roundabout daily, where traffic from the national highway, Orihuela Costa, southern Torrevieja, and the residential areas of Punta Prima, Rocío del Mar, and Señorío de Gomendio converge. The idea was to reduce queues at a roundabout that has been saturated for years. On paper, it sounded promising. However, in the middle of summer, and with no data from the Ministry to prove otherwise, the results are far from convincing those who suffer through it daily.
No traffic jam on the N-332
The feeling among many drivers is that the system protects the flow of traffic on the N-332, which still experiences significant queues, and penalizes those trying to merge from Avenida Escorpiones or Avenida de Las Olas. Traffic jams on both roads already existed, but they have worsened since the intelligent traffic management system has been more fully implemented. The problem is particularly acute on Avenida de Las Olas. For residents of Rocío del Mar, the TM towers, and Señorío de Gomendio, this access road is not an alternative: it is the only way to reach the national highway.
The scene repeats itself throughout the day. The traffic lights at the entrance to the roundabout don't function like a conventional intersection, with a clear sequence of red, amber, and green. They flash amber or turn red as the system decides. Drivers, accustomed to the basic logic of any traffic light, rush to enter when they see amber. Desperation does the rest. More and more vehicles are seen running the red light, as INFORMACIÓN has been able to verify. And when someone does obey, the response from the queue is immediate: a series of beeps that seem anything but AI-like. Where there used to be waits, now there is noise, idling engines, and fed-up residents on Las Olas Avenue.
The worst part
The traffic lights are installed on both sides of the N-332 and at the access points from Las Olas and Escorpiones avenues. These are two high-capacity roads, but they experience enormous congestion in the summer. Las Olas bears the brunt of the load because it carries traffic from residential areas that have grown significantly in recent years, with hundreds of new homes and a parking shortage that is already noticeable throughout the Punta Prima area. The traffic lights are not only overloading Las Olas avenue, but also the shortcut along Arrecife and Pleamar streets, which connects to the roundabout sooner and is now gridlocked at certain times of day.
The system incorporates traffic lights, detection cameras, and data collection devices. According to the project, this information feeds an AI-based control system capable of adapting traffic light cycles to actual traffic volume. Initially, the video surveillance was not signposted, although signs warning of its presence have now appeared. Currently, the system does not include a license plate reader or equipment for automatic ticketing, something that should be explicitly indicated.
Withholdings
The worst traffic jams, due to waiting times rather than the number of vehicles, occur on Avenida de Las Olas, although only in one lane. These are followed by queues on the N-332 towards Torrevieja, which at times stretch for more than a kilometer to the Alameda del Mar roundabout. Next come the traffic jams on Avenida Escorpiones and, to a lesser extent, the congestion of traffic coming from Torrevieja towards Orihuela Costa and Pilar de la Horadada.
The Ministry of Transport argued that the intelligent traffic light monitoring and management system is based on machine learning and reinforcement learning techniques. The goal is for the system to learn from user experience and collected data. The system combines neural networks, big data analytics, traffic modeling, and traditional road engineering methods to select the most efficient solution for all users at any given time.
Theory and practice
The theory clashes with the reality on the street. At a normal roundabout, drivers generally know what to expect. Not here. The traffic light turns red when the system decides, and that decision is unpredictable for someone who has been stopped for several minutes. Many users interpret the artificial intelligence as merely preventing the traffic jam on the N-332 from reaching kilometer-long proportions, at the expense of shifting the problem onto the access roads to residential areas.
More than 400,000 euros
The project cost €409,369 and is financed with European funds from the EU's Recovery, Transformation and Resilience Plan. The tender specifications themselves acknowledge the experimental nature of the measure. It is the first roundabout in Spain with this type of technology applied to traffic regulation on the national road network. They also admit that, although similar projects exist, this technique is not routinely included in the regulatory framework for the National Road Network due to its sensitivity to certain factors.
That nuance explains some of the residents' anger. Punta Prima has become a kind of testing ground for a system that seeks to "optimize traffic flow and learn from real-world traffic." Drivers, however, interpret it differently: longer queues to leave their homes, more honking outside their windows, and a roundabout that now seems less predictable than before.
AI hasn't been able to solve the traffic jam. Because it stems from a difficult-to-rectify root in urban planning over the last forty years focused on approving tens of thousands of tourist apartments without providing residents with greater capacity or alternative mobility options. While level roundabouts at intersections prioritized safety, they simply don't allow enough space for cars.
No news about the duplication of the N-332
Drivers residing in Torrevieja and Orihuela Costa, the main users of the N-332, are waiting for the road to be widened as it passes through Torrevieja — a project decades in the making — and they would be happy with a conventional widening: one with earth embankments, concrete, and asphalt. But there has been no news of the widening project for over a year, since the ministry indicated that it had passed the environmental assessment.
Wonder who thought it was a good idea that the AI traffic light sequencing should consist of only amber and red, and not replicate normal traffic light of green, amber and red, that drivers are used to ?
https://www.informacion.es/vega-baja/20 ... 32297.html
Google translate, minus video and images:
Not even AI can solve the traffic jams at the Rocío del Mar roundabout on the N-332 in Torrevieja
Complaints are mounting as August progresses. In May, the Ministry of Transport launched a pioneering artificial intelligence system to regulate traffic at the Rocío del Mar-Punta Prima roundabout in Torrevieja, near the Orihuela municipal boundary. This is one of the most congested points on the N-332 highway in the Vega Baja region. An average of nearly 40,000 vehicles pass through this roundabout daily, where traffic from the national highway, Orihuela Costa, southern Torrevieja, and the residential areas of Punta Prima, Rocío del Mar, and Señorío de Gomendio converge. The idea was to reduce queues at a roundabout that has been saturated for years. On paper, it sounded promising. However, in the middle of summer, and with no data from the Ministry to prove otherwise, the results are far from convincing those who suffer through it daily.
No traffic jam on the N-332
The feeling among many drivers is that the system protects the flow of traffic on the N-332, which still experiences significant queues, and penalizes those trying to merge from Avenida Escorpiones or Avenida de Las Olas. Traffic jams on both roads already existed, but they have worsened since the intelligent traffic management system has been more fully implemented. The problem is particularly acute on Avenida de Las Olas. For residents of Rocío del Mar, the TM towers, and Señorío de Gomendio, this access road is not an alternative: it is the only way to reach the national highway.
The scene repeats itself throughout the day. The traffic lights at the entrance to the roundabout don't function like a conventional intersection, with a clear sequence of red, amber, and green. They flash amber or turn red as the system decides. Drivers, accustomed to the basic logic of any traffic light, rush to enter when they see amber. Desperation does the rest. More and more vehicles are seen running the red light, as INFORMACIÓN has been able to verify. And when someone does obey, the response from the queue is immediate: a series of beeps that seem anything but AI-like. Where there used to be waits, now there is noise, idling engines, and fed-up residents on Las Olas Avenue.
The worst part
The traffic lights are installed on both sides of the N-332 and at the access points from Las Olas and Escorpiones avenues. These are two high-capacity roads, but they experience enormous congestion in the summer. Las Olas bears the brunt of the load because it carries traffic from residential areas that have grown significantly in recent years, with hundreds of new homes and a parking shortage that is already noticeable throughout the Punta Prima area. The traffic lights are not only overloading Las Olas avenue, but also the shortcut along Arrecife and Pleamar streets, which connects to the roundabout sooner and is now gridlocked at certain times of day.
The system incorporates traffic lights, detection cameras, and data collection devices. According to the project, this information feeds an AI-based control system capable of adapting traffic light cycles to actual traffic volume. Initially, the video surveillance was not signposted, although signs warning of its presence have now appeared. Currently, the system does not include a license plate reader or equipment for automatic ticketing, something that should be explicitly indicated.
Withholdings
The worst traffic jams, due to waiting times rather than the number of vehicles, occur on Avenida de Las Olas, although only in one lane. These are followed by queues on the N-332 towards Torrevieja, which at times stretch for more than a kilometer to the Alameda del Mar roundabout. Next come the traffic jams on Avenida Escorpiones and, to a lesser extent, the congestion of traffic coming from Torrevieja towards Orihuela Costa and Pilar de la Horadada.
The Ministry of Transport argued that the intelligent traffic light monitoring and management system is based on machine learning and reinforcement learning techniques. The goal is for the system to learn from user experience and collected data. The system combines neural networks, big data analytics, traffic modeling, and traditional road engineering methods to select the most efficient solution for all users at any given time.
Theory and practice
The theory clashes with the reality on the street. At a normal roundabout, drivers generally know what to expect. Not here. The traffic light turns red when the system decides, and that decision is unpredictable for someone who has been stopped for several minutes. Many users interpret the artificial intelligence as merely preventing the traffic jam on the N-332 from reaching kilometer-long proportions, at the expense of shifting the problem onto the access roads to residential areas.
More than 400,000 euros
The project cost €409,369 and is financed with European funds from the EU's Recovery, Transformation and Resilience Plan. The tender specifications themselves acknowledge the experimental nature of the measure. It is the first roundabout in Spain with this type of technology applied to traffic regulation on the national road network. They also admit that, although similar projects exist, this technique is not routinely included in the regulatory framework for the National Road Network due to its sensitivity to certain factors.
That nuance explains some of the residents' anger. Punta Prima has become a kind of testing ground for a system that seeks to "optimize traffic flow and learn from real-world traffic." Drivers, however, interpret it differently: longer queues to leave their homes, more honking outside their windows, and a roundabout that now seems less predictable than before.
AI hasn't been able to solve the traffic jam. Because it stems from a difficult-to-rectify root in urban planning over the last forty years focused on approving tens of thousands of tourist apartments without providing residents with greater capacity or alternative mobility options. While level roundabouts at intersections prioritized safety, they simply don't allow enough space for cars.
No news about the duplication of the N-332
Drivers residing in Torrevieja and Orihuela Costa, the main users of the N-332, are waiting for the road to be widened as it passes through Torrevieja — a project decades in the making — and they would be happy with a conventional widening: one with earth embankments, concrete, and asphalt. But there has been no news of the widening project for over a year, since the ministry indicated that it had passed the environmental assessment.
Re: Punta Prima N332 Roundabout AI Traffic Lights
Yes we were correctly stopped on red at them last week when a car in the outside lane just drove merrily through them . I don't think they even registered with the driver.
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